Aliens, Secrets, and Science: What Are They Not Telling Us?
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S1 E14

Aliens, Secrets, and Science: What Are They Not Telling Us?

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Hello and welcome back.

Today we are going to discuss the report

from the 1960s called Proposed Studies on the

Implications of Peaceful Space Activities for Human Affairs,

also known as the Brookings Report.

The Brookings Report was created by the Brookings

Institute for NASA in 1960 and according to

the report itself it was created to understand

the consequences of peaceful space activities.

The report itself can be found on the

home page of NASA if you like.

It's still there as pdf and you can

just download it.

But the purpose of the report was to

understand the consequences of peaceful space activities.

Basically what happens if you find life in

space?

How will people react?

How will religion react?

How will politics be changed etc?

What kind of social and cultural consequences will

this have also back on the peaceful space

activities?

It has an additional purpose and that was

also to help NASA with future decisions.

The report should be used for long-term

planning, for policies and for statistical, strategical choices.

But also it has another purpose that was

to inspire additional science both in academia, in

industrial as well as in governments.

So it was not just an analysis but

an agenda for future explorations.

The report methodology itself was quite comprehensive and

serious.

It has more than 200 interviews with all

kinds of experts on all major areas.

So workshops and conferences etc was all hosted

by the Brookings Institute in order to create

this report.

The purpose of the analysis was to understand

the society consequences.

So how will new technology change the society?

How will the reaction be on scientific discoveries?

But also to understand human behavior.

How will people react on the unknown?

For instance if we discover that we are

not alone in the universe.

It includes the cultural as well as psychological

effects.

But also institutions and politics was under the

scrutiny of the report.

Because how will governments react on this new

knowledge if for instance we are not alone

in the universe?

But also in terms of international relations.

We could also look at the communication and

information.

How should information be shared?

And what about the risk for panic or

misinformation?

As you probably heard there was in 1938

a well-known radio program by Wells called

War of the World.

I will return to it but basically it

started some panic.

And the thing was that in the 1960s,

which was only 20 years later, there was

an understanding that we need to spend some

time in investigating this.

Because if rumors actually could start panics around

in the US, perhaps we should investigate some

resources in this.

If we look at today, more than 60

years later, almost 70, you could argue that

big changes have happened since.

But interestingly enough some of the founding problems

are still the same.

If we do a small comparison, in the

1960s there was a space race between the

Soviet Union and USA.

There was also a possibility of life in

space.

And we need to discuss how humans will

react on, should we say, big scientific discoveries.

But also how the state itself should handle

this new knowledge.

So we have a lot of uncertainty.

We have a Cold War and we got

a lot of what-if scenarios.

Today things are, should we say, more practical.

Because at that time the question was, what

if we find life?

Today we are working with Mars missions, satellites,

economics in space, etc.

So you could say that the focus has

gone from theory to practical stuff.

Also today we have multiple operators.

We do not only have the state, because

at that time we have NASA and the

Soviet Union, that was it.

But today we have private actors like SpaceX,

Blue Origin, Starlink.

So you could say that the space exploration

has become commercial and global.

But we also have new, should we say,

problems.

In the 60s, the bookings report were concerned

about, should we say, a cultural shock, religion

and physiological reactions.

Today the concern is more about surveillance from

satellites, internet control, for instance Starlink.

We got garbage in space.

We got ownership of space, for instance, is

it allowed to own the moon?

The problem has been more, should we say,

concrete and political.

And then we have something entirely new.

We got AI.

At the time in the bookings report, we

do not have artificial intelligence, but we have

it now.

And that means that AI is assisting a

lot of, should we say, pictures of space

in terms of analysis.

It is automating a lot of science tasks

and it helps in decision making.

So you could say today, if we're riding

a little up, today we do not have

the same fear for panic.

At that time the bookings report was very

concerned, will people panic if we find life?

Today we could say that humans, we are

more hardened in terms of new knowledge.

The internet and global information, should we say,

makes us more robust in terms of new

knowledge.

So you could say that the focus has

gone from psychological shock to governance and ethics.

But what has not changed?

Well, today we are still very much, in

terms of new technology that change the society,

we are still 100%.

We do not know all consequences and that's

still the same.

Instances take out the physical intelligence and the

space.

We still have a need for science across

sectors and that is not only technology, it's

also sociology and politics.

So yes, a lot of things has changed.

Space and space activities has been, should we

say, every day's work and industry.

And the problem has been more concrete and

political.

New technologies like AI is having a central

role in this.

But the, should we say, the main ideas

from the 1960s are still relevant.

Because when new technology occurs, we must understand

the impact for society.

Okay, let's challenge the bookings report a little.

Imagine this, would panic break out like in

the radio show in 1938 if we, for

instance, discovered aliens?

Or imagine that, for instance, what if our

gods was just astronauts that was passing through?

So let's work with that.

We start with the aliens as gods.

Is that idea still valid?

Yes, it is.

But in a different way.

In the 1950s and the 1960s, you are

seriously concerned about that the discovery of aliens

could, you know, challenge religion, could create existential

crisis, because people could think, our gods is

not gods, but aliens.

And that was why the report at that

time was cultural and religious investigating, you could

say, because you want to analyze the shot

of the culture and religion, if you found

out that it was not gods, it was

simply just, you know, aliens, ancient aliens.

Today, these thoughts are still there, but it's

a lot more mainstream.

Because today we have ancient aliens theories, we

got a lot of conspiracy theories.

But it's also a fact that a lot

of religions has actually changed to the idea

that there's life in space.

And the main conclusion is basically that this

does not change anything.

So today, you could say that there's less

shock, and more, you know, one among multiple

explanations.

So you could say that what they were

concerned about in the 1950s and 1960s is

today already absorbed in culture and debate, simply

by, you know, look at all the movies

where we have aliens, look at all the

different, not only reports, but all kind of,

not only movies, but TV shows and all

these kind of things where we have absorbed

this idea.

So you could say we are a lot

more hardened there.

One of the things, if you return back

to the War of the World in 1938,

that was a radio theater, and it was

sent in, should we say, in news style.

So some people actually thought that the Earth

was being invaded, and they were scared.

But today we know that it was saturated

a lot in the medias, and it was

far less that actually went into panic than

you initially thought.

One of the key things here is actually

that the radio was in competitions of, should

we say, users with the written press.

Traditional papers was actually exaggerating the effects quite

a lot, probably because they want to sell

more newspapers, and that's probably why it was

exaggerated.

If we look at the concerns of the

Perugin's Report from 1960, they were actually using

these kind of examples to ask questions like,

will people be able to absorb this shocking

new knowledge, or should we basically control information.

At that time it was a real concern

in the report.

Today I think that the most scientists will

think, no, we will not be going to

panic if somebody is discovering, listen, we are

not alone in the universe, we have, I

don't know, four different races here, 10 different

races, 2000.

It will not be the same shock as

it would be at that time.

But also today we have an information society

where news is spreading fast.

But also you have a lot of sources,

so that means that it's less likely that

you will just take one story and then

blow it out of, should we say, what

it is, and today we're also a lot

more skeptical.

I mean, fake news is today something that

is, you know, a part of everyday life.

I live in Europe, we have fake news

all over, the Russians are flooding us with

this kind of things.

So today we have a lot of conspiracy

theories, we have social media that actually can,

you know, go crazy, we have uncertainty and

we also have fear in some groups, and

we also have political and religious debate.

It will not be panic like in 1938,

but it will be chaotic, no doubts about

that.

So in the 1960s we have a real

fear for shock and panic.

Today it's more about misinformation and chaotic.

Will people panic today?

Probably not.

But the reaction could be more complex, it

will probably be digital and there will be

a lot of fragments.

You could also ask if NASA was spending

money on a report with 200 interviews, with

conferences, etc.

That cannot be cheap and it probably wasn't.

So I think that the fear was not

without reason, but it might not be realistic

in the form that you initially, you know,

thought.

So if we start why NASA actually took

this serious, it is correct that NASA used

resources, for instance on the Brookings report before

the moon landing.

It says something important because NASA took the

uncertainty regarding new discoveries very serious.

And one other thing was actually in terms

of technology, we think that today we have

a lot of new technology, but you know,

in the 50s and 60s a lot of

the population, you know, they went to see

the atomic bomb.

We have space rockets, we have satellites, we

have possibilities of life in space.

We have that from the White Brothers to

jet, to space flight, all in a single

life.

So you could say that people, they have

discovered on their own body that science could

change the world dramatically and also in a

dangerous way.

So if technology has created the global fear,

you know, atomics, why not on space exploration?

And I think that's a valid point.

Furthermore, at that time we have the Cold

War.

The Soviet Union was actually quite expansive.

So in that context, it was US versus

the Soviet Union.

We had a lot of propaganda and psychological

warfare and also a fear for destabilization.

So if you had, should we say, an

alien's discovery, in theory it could be a

part of that game.

So bottom line was that NASA's conclusion was

we needed knowledge about human reaction.

How will people react on world changing information?

So was the fear realistic?

I would say yes, because you stood here

on something entirely new.

We had a history that showed that people

could react irrationally, like in the War of

the Worlds scenarios, and communication was slower and

less controlled.

So you could say this was responsible risk

management.

But it was also, I mean, there was

no mass panic.

So the War of the Worlds scenario was

exaggerated.

People was a lot more stable than initial

thought.

There was no religious collapse.

Today we see religions that, should we say,

adopt new knowledge and faith does not evaporate.

For instance, the Vatican has an observatory, I

think it's in Montana, but if I'm wrong,

it's one of the other northern states in

the US.

Bottom line is that what is, should we

say, what is the spiritual explanation of having

an observatory looking at the stars for the

Vatican?

Anyway, it's there.

But also that today a single shock will,

yeah, perhaps create a global reaction, but it

will not be, you know, a global disaster.

And I think the most important was here

that if we look at the report, the

Brookings report, it is not primarily about fear

for aliens.

It is about how society reacted on large

scientific breakthroughs.

So you could say alien was just the

most extreme example.

If I go further down the rabbit hole

and we could, you know, ask what if

aliens was massive technological ahead of us and,

for instance, eat humans in the same way

as we are having, you know, kettles and

so on.

Was that investigated?

And the short answer is no, it was

not.

It was not about how alien was, but

how people would react if we discovered aliens.

So the purpose of the report was to

investigate the social consequences, the political consequences, the

psychological reactions, and of course, cultural and religious

changes.

And it was only indirect, you know, if

it was, should we say, dangerous or aliens.

The report does mention that contact with aliens,

but they will probably say something like, this

extreme examples does not make sense to do

science in.

For instance, they mentioned that extraterrestrials are something

that is out of, you know, practical science.

So you could say, in other words, that

they were actually rejecting to analyze concrete alien

scenarios.

So it was very indirect, this analysis in

terms of dangerous aliens.

If I should go a step further and

say, how would science actually describe this?

I think they would say something like that,

you know, we are working with science, this

is no speculations.

They would focus on what they believe as

realistic problems.

They will not do it, go into science

fiction.

So stories regarding that, you know, aliens that

eat humans, that is not something you can

do a policy about.

So that we will not waste time on.

They will probably say something like that.

And they will also say something like that,

you know, the focus is on information, not

on contact.

What they were interested in, what is, what

if we discover sickness, what if we find

microorganisms and so on.

It was not a very, in terms of

what if we are getting invaded and things

like that.

And the last thing I would say here

is that they would also probably say something

like that, despite that NASA is actually on

the Department of Defense, or should I say

the Department of War, despite that NASA is

a civil institution and by definition a peaceful.

So the report was quite explicit regarding peaceful

space activities.

That is about science, it's about cooperation and

technology.

That is not war against aliens.

And that is why they would not waste

money and time of this hostile alien scenario.

And they will also probably say something like,

you know, the most important in this is

not the different scenarios, but that is the

human reactions on the unknown.

That is far more important than the unknown

itself.

And that's why they would analyze attitudes, values,

institutions and so on, but not aliens' biology

or intentions.

But you would also say, what is different

from today versus that time?

Has NASA changed its policies?

Yes, NASA has changed the policies, but not

the total change.

I think it's fair to say that NASA

is still thinking about the consequences, but how

they do it and what the focus is

has changed significantly, if you ask me.

In the 1960s, NASA's focus was about what

if we discover life, how would humans react?

At that time, they were doing, should we

say, large analysis.

They were using different kinds of sciences.

And the way of thinking was created by,

you know, a lot of concern that the

Cold War and the fear for society's reactions.

That was why they created a report that

was, you know, basically, let's prepare for all,

also the unknown.

If we look at it today, you could

say that, at least that's my impression, that

there's a lot less focus on human panic.

NASA does, at least to my knowledge, no

longer create reports like the Brookings that ask,

you know, basically, will people go into panic?

Today, they are more general.

You would say that the society is a

lot more robust and is used to new

knowledge.

But also, NASA has the focus on concrete

systems.

Today, NASA is working with, you know, Mars

missions, with exoplanets, search for possible life, astrobiology,

and so on.

But the focus is how do we find

life, not what it does with religion.

But also, they have clear protocols, and that,

I think, is a new one.

So, instead of broad speculations, you now have,

should we say, detection and announcement protocols.

If NASA finds life, results should be verified,

the data should be shared openly, and society

should be informed, should we say, controlled.

But back in the 60s, in reality, there

was only US and Soviet Union.

Today, you have international cooperation with ESA in

Europe, and you have different international society networks,

and you basically got a lot less paranoia

and a lot more cooperation.

But you also have today new concerns.

Today, NASA is, you know, very much concerned

about, you know, contamination.

Can we bring bacteria to Mars, and can

we bring something back?

It's about data and evidence, it's about climate

and Earth observation, and so on.

So, you could say that today the risk

is about biology and technology, not about science

fiction.

You could also ask, has NASA entirely dropped

the Brookings report's way of thinking?

Not completely.

I think that the founding idea is still

living there.

We are still thinking about, or sorry, NASA

is still thinking about consequences, about being prepared,

about cooperation with other sciences.

So, if we sum this up, you could

say that the official line of NASA is

now focused on microbiology, microbiology, yeah, I can't

say that, I'll try again, microbiology, life, and

biosignature, and not on intelligent civilization or alien

invasions and things like that.

Not because it's impossible, but because it's outside,

should we say, practical science.

That, I think, this is what they would

say.

One of the, should we say, critical questions

you could ask is that, imagine that aliens

does exist, what does the report say about

the negative effects about, you know, publicizing this

into the public?

But I think it is fair to say

that the report does not conclude that you

should hide the evidence of aliens.

It's more, should we say, nuanced.

And I think that we need to discuss

this a little more thoroughly.

The report says we do not know how

people will react, and that's why we need

to investigate it further.

The report says some groupings could react negatively,

especially if their, should we say, worldview is

challenged.

And that is one of the, should we

say, most cited points.

It is that, from the report, it is

that some societies or groupings could have problems

with, you know, handling this new knowledge.

But this hypothesis is not a recommendation.

The report does not say, okay, then we

don't tell them.

That is not what the groupings report says.

But it works with questions like, who will

react negatively, under what circumstances, and how do

we communicate this on the best possible way?

So you could say that the focus is

about how do we inform this in a

responsible way, and not to, you know, to

hide the information.

But if I'm going to be the devil's

advocate, I would say something like that the

Brookings Institute report from 1960s is actually a

recipe in how to control information.

Because I think it's a valid point to

discuss that the US military, especially, but not

only US military, all militaries in the Western

world, has, you know, been keeping back recordings

of, you know, UFOs and UAPs and so

on.

And if I read the Brookings report, it

is as a recommendation to, you know, control

information of aliens.

And if that is the case, that's happened

for over 60 years.

And I think that's a valid point.

They will probably say, if we ask the

writers of the report, if possible, that they

will probably say that, to some degree, it's

correct that the US has, you know, kept

back UFO recordings.

Because for many years, US military has classified

observations of UFOs and UAPs.

They have not published the data.

And they, for instance, in the Pentagon videos

from, I believe it's 2017 and 2020.

And to some extent, they might be right

there.

Because I think that the primary reason was,

you know, basically military security.

It was also in terms of technology.

And that could also be uncertainty, what it

is that you've actually seen.

But that's not the same as to say

that the military itself, you know, knew if

this was aliens.

But does it mean that the Brookings reports

was followed as, you know, as a manual

for secrecy?

I would say that they would probably answer

that the Brookings report does not recommend secrecy.

It would say something like, you know, that

investigate reactions, prepare communication, and you should be

probably be aware of consequences.

So I think the writers would say this

is an analysis.

It's not, you know, how to keep it

secret policy.

But even if we have no aliens in

the picture, there could be valid reasons for,

you know, to hide military technology.

Because in some of this video, you can

actually see some, you know, radar and sensor

systems.

They are secret.

And if you show this, you actually, you

know, tell your enemy what your capacities are.

And then there's also the uncertainty, you know,

a lot of observation is not explained.

And you could argue that the military was,

you know, trying to avoid spread false information,

and, you know, basically to create uncertainty.

But it's also in terms of intelligence, you

know, some of this unknown object, they could

be, you know, enemy systems, it could be

test airplanes, it could be drones, etc.

So I think that the secrecy is not

the same as proof of aliens.

But the thing is here, how do we

know?

And that is actually one of, I think,

the key problems.

Because we know that, for fact, that especially

in US, where you have the Freedom of

Information Act, I think it's a well known

factor that the especially the military, but also

the government itself, you know, they keep things

secret.

And the thing is that we do not

know what's secret and what is not.

And what is valid and what is not.

Because how can we as society, you know,

raise the right Christians, if we, if we

are not informed about what is happening.

But, and that is actually, I think, the

key thing in science, because science will say

that, you are keeping things secret, because we

are used to work with not having all

the information.

I would say one of the key problems

in terms of, you know, the state, that

is that if the state keeps something secret,

how can we trust anything?

Because, you know, if important knowledge is hidden,

how can we verify what, you know, what

the picture is?

We cannot, you know, use open evidence, because

what we know is based on data that

can be tested.

But if we have no data to test

because they are kept secret, how can we,

you know, do open evidence?

The same goes with repetition, or should I

say replication?

Because if other scientists should be able to

do the same result, that is required that,

you know, we basically have, you know, sensors,

it's open, what's happened in this, the specification

of the sensor is known.

So we can, you know, basically test this

again.

If the sensors is redacted or perhaps hidden

in secret files and so on, how can

we, you know, do this kind of things?

And how can we be sceptic in terms

of science, if we don't know what to

be sceptic about?

And that is what I think here.

If you ask a science, they will probably

say, no, it does not destroy anything from

science, but it creates some, should we say,

limitations.

So if the data, sorry, if the military

has data that the scientist does not see,

then science, you know, will miss this information.

But science can still work with what is

accessible and what can be tested.

And that is, I think, a false idea.

I think that if we do not need

to know everything, but secrecy is generating a

problem.

I think also it's fair to say that

it does not destroy science, but it limits

it quite severely.

I don't think it necessarily works anymore, because

it's built on what is able to be

tested and to be shared.

But if not everything is, you know, on

the table, then how can we do this?

And that is actually why I think that

the Brookings report is actually, you know, a

recipe in order how to control information.

Because the thing is, by the end of

the day, we have the war of the

world scenarios in 1938.

We have the report created in the 1960s.

And the thing is that even if it

does not say that information should be controlled,

it does say that, you know, it should

be investigated further.

We do not know as citizens if this

report was created.

Was it investigated further?

And what was the recommendation of that?

And that, I think, is a little troublesome

in terms of, you know, checking these things.

Because how would we know the right questions

to ask if nobody tells us and if

anything related to this is kept secret?

And that's the main thing.

Actually, I think that the Brookings report was

a quite important contribution in how to control

knowledge.

Because it basically says that if we do

not control knowledge, we can end up in

all these scenarios.

And that, I think, is a little understated

in the analysis of the Brookings reports.

Because it says what happens to society, but

it's also pinpoint a recipe in order to

make sure that the society does never get

the information that is required.

Thank you for listening.

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